revolution. we actually now have a path to energy independence in america, that's a $200 billion deficit right now. it's a bridge to renewable energy, renewable energy's going to take a long time. if we can move to gas, we'll get tremendous benefits in terms of cleaner energy on the way to renewable energy future. if we could get those things done, steve, this would be transformational for our economy. but we haven't been able to act on these things even though, as i said earlier, there's wide bipartisan consensus. >> thank you, michael. let me jump to doug and steve for a moment and just try to poke holes in this. if we roll back time to just before the financial crisis, you looked at the u.s. debt position, doug holtz-eakin was out there, you know, bitching about that already. [laughter] and john mccain and others had been. but it's much worse today. if you looked at debt in a different way, if you looked at private sector debt, if you looked at the fact -- forget government debt, but if you looked, government debt's gotten worse, but before the financial crisis, private sector debt wa